Curse

pumpkin pie · Nov 14, 2008, 04:43 AM // 04:43

7 heros, rarely have I use pve skills unless pug requested it.

bj91x · Nov 14, 2008, 04:51 AM // 04:51

I would have to go with full heroes. It just allows for more creativity and variety with build creation. I can add 9 PVE skills (3 PVE skills per hero, 3 heroes per team) or I can add 32 skills (8 skills per hero, at least 4 extra heroes for most areas). Sure, full heroes probably won't be as powerful as PVE skills on 3 heroes, but I'd rather get through the game using more creative and a large variety of builds rather than using the same powerful PVE skills every time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

Neither. This has nothing to do with whether or not PvE is easy but everything with what a game like Guild Wars is supposed to be.
It isn't a game that is ment to be played solo. Those critters like heroes and hench were invented to fill up a party, not to create one with only one human.
So in my opinion the seven hero option is against core game mechanics and therefore not an option.

...

So I don't really see any reason for either option unless you want to make Guild Wars a solo game, something I've always strongly opposed.

I completely disagree.

Yes, this is a co-op game and the whole point of this game's PVE is to co-op. And in a perfect world, you'd always have tons of players to play with that you never have to play alone. In a perfect world, you'd be able to find people who just want to cap the same skill as you and zone back once you all cap the same skill. In a perfect world, everybody would be like minded and there would be no arguing over builds to bring. In a perfect world, everybody would be good players and you would be able to do anything without things going sour every few seconds.

Unfortunately, the world is not so perfect. Majority of my time is spent playing alone. Why? Because I can't find people who want to do the same thing. Even when I want to help out random people, I sometimes cannot find anybody to help out. Why? Because I play when most people are sleeping. I sometimes see people who need help but I don't help them. Why? Because they need help with something I hate doing.

As much as I hate playing this game alone, solo playing is a very important part of the game and there will always be situations where I will be forced to be on "stand by" mode where my only option is to play alone with AI teammates. And with that being the case, I'd like to see a full hero option so that my "stand by" time isn't so mind numbingly boring. As is now, the "stand by" time is so boring that I just stopped playing the game altogether, giving GW one less player to play with. Why spend 30 minutes with boring "stand by" time in hopes that I can find people to play with, when I can just go do something else I enjoy?

EDIT: Oh heck, as long as I'm wishing for a perfect world, here's one more thing. In a perfect world, we'd have a global search function that we can use any where and look for players doing anything.

cellardweller · Nov 14, 2008, 05:08 AM // 05:08

Is 7 heroes and removing pve skills from the game altogether an option?

kazjun · Nov 14, 2008, 06:26 AM // 06:26

7 heroes. Barely even have pve skills on anything but my main. About the only skills they have are the ss res sig (hardly necessary, but why not?) and the vanguard sin (cause he's right there and easy to get). 7 Heroes would be far more useful then 3 heroes with pve skills.

sentex · Nov 14, 2008, 12:26 PM // 12:26

7 heroes, no doubt

the_jos · Nov 14, 2008, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by bj91x

<skip perfect world part>
As much as I hate playing this game alone, solo playing is a very important part of the game and there will always be situations where I will be forced to be on "stand by" mode where my only option is to play alone with AI teammates. And with that being the case, I'd like to see a full hero option so that my "stand by" time isn't so mind numbingly boring. As is now, the "stand by" time is so boring that I just stopped playing the game altogether, giving GW one less player to play with. Why spend 30 minutes with boring "stand by" time in hopes that I can find people to play with, when I can just go do something else I enjoy?

EDIT: Oh heck, as long as I'm wishing for a perfect world, here's one more thing. In a perfect world, we'd have a global search function that we can use any where and look for players doing anything.

bj91x,

I completely agree with that last line.
It's something I've surgested a long time ago if I'm not mistaking.

I've had a long period where I was unable to play for long times because I was in a kind of standby situation. I could be called away any time on certain evenings, or nothing could happen. When I got a call I had to leave that moment.
This also forced me into a lot of solo play but even now I vote against anything promoting solo play.
I learned to play with hench only and later with hench and heroes (which I don't think killed teaming, I think heroes improved teaming somewhat).
The disadvantage of a less efficient team was less than the advantage of being able to play something I like and not being a burden to other players.

The option of seven heroes would flip the disadvantage to a huge advantage.
I would be able to do whatever I want whenever I would like to.
And far more effective than anything besides teaming up with a guild team or some very experienced players.
This is the main reason I oppose to a change to seven heroes.
I would not mind if they were as good as the average PUG I met the last weeks (and with most we get the thing (mainly Hard Mode) done, so they ain't bad), but seven heroes are far better.
Sure, they are lausy at certain tasks, but AI can be abused to do things that most human players can't. And a little micro management helps even more.

You know what my though was when the discussions on seven heroes started?
Not: "mmm, I can play solo that way!". No, it was: "How can I abuse this to maximum efficiency?". I had the same with some skill changes, it's just my curious nature I think.

That's something important to understand in the request for seven heroes, not everyone sees it as a way to just play solo. If I just want to play solo I can take heroes and hench. The only reason I ask for full hero teams is more efficiency. And I'm not the only one.

Miss Puddles · Nov 14, 2008, 06:06 PM // 18:06

7 heroes, but it's about even between the two.

IlikeGW · Nov 14, 2008, 06:25 PM // 18:25

4 heroes in 8 or more people areas might make a bit more sense, but 7 is insanely imbalanced.

baltazar knight · Nov 14, 2008, 06:38 PM // 18:38

7 heroes is funnnnnn,never gonna happen tho

kratimas · Nov 14, 2008, 06:43 PM // 18:43

7 heros without a doubt!

distilledwill · Nov 14, 2008, 06:43 PM // 18:43

7 heroes. all the way. It would be freaking amazing.

Bryant Again · Nov 14, 2008, 06:44 PM // 18:44

7 heroes. I want to have more build diversity, not less.

Btw:

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

All hero parties.

Although I was hoping the thread would be about which title would you chose if A.Net decided to give each account ONE maxed title for free - either account wide or character-title.
That would be a better thread.
And with that in mind - max Lucky.
Although I wouldn't mind having the /rank emote. But I want a Tigger - not that flying chicken ...

Bookmarked for post of the year (!!!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by IlikeGW

4 heroes in 8 or more people areas might make a bit more sense, but 7 is insanely imbalanced.

Do tell. How is a team of 7 heroes using legit builds more overpowered than a team of 8 with 24 PvE skills?

Tyla · Nov 14, 2008, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by IlikeGW

4 heroes in 8 or more people areas might make a bit more sense, but 7 is insanely imbalanced.

I lol'd.

Full human parties have the ability to avoid retardation, and have access to PvE skills. Looking at this thread, heroes will still probably screw up with PvE skills, and they would still be dumb at 7 heroes.

ParanoidDenny · Nov 14, 2008, 06:52 PM // 18:52

7 Heroes, i was rather hoping this feature was going to be in this update but all i got was screwed, "hey thx for playing for 3 years but RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO you you aint having any reward for being loyal so go RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO off to WOW!

IlikeGW · Nov 14, 2008, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Do tell. How is a team of 7 heroes using legit builds more overpowered than a team of 8 with 24 PvE skills?

PvE skills are strong, but they're not controlled by an AI bot, they're controlled by people that fail in more unpredictable ways. Heroes are predictable so builds can be made that'll bomb through the game in seconds. If they ever made 7 heroes an option they'd at the same time start nerfing lots of skills heavily used on heroes, so there's no real point.

MithranArkanere · Nov 14, 2008, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Meh. PvE skills are only for players.
7 heroes would turn the game (even more) into a Single-player game with multiuser chat.

I'd go for giving each hero one single unique PvE skill related to the plot, their race or their personality. Norn Form for Jora, Trample for Zedd, Corsair net for Margrid, etc...

maraxusofk · Nov 15, 2008, 04:06 AM // 04:06

7 heroes cuz game is already ruined by heroes. 3 more wouldnt make a difference except allow ppl to solo harder harder challenge missions like urgoz

darkknightkain · Nov 15, 2008, 04:28 AM // 04:28

Definitely 7 Heroes.
There are too much grind for PvE skills to have any use when you have multiple characters.

In fact, even if the last 4 heroes only run like "customized" henchmen (ie. no flags, no mini-skillbars) that will still be better than PvE skills.
That way they don't even need to bother changing the UI nor worrying about cluttering the UI at all.

Silvance · Nov 15, 2008, 12:49 PM // 12:49

Seven heroes should have been implemented a long time ago.

the_jos · Nov 15, 2008, 02:13 PM // 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

(on 7 hero imbalance)
I lol'd.

Full human parties have the ability to avoid retardation, and have access to PvE skills.

And need to team together, arrange professions and builds, perhaps adjust some because no UAS.
Then we have players who play only one profession so 7 warriors and a Dervish show up. And this is a trusted Guild or friends only event since even in the best alliances there is risk for retarted players.
This could avoid the profession problem though.

So we need to organise up front to get things going fast or we will be stuck for 30 minutes to get things sorted. Then we have our 'always late' guildie and the one who needs to afk because of kids fighting each other.
And there could also be one who's on auto-run and watches youtube at the same time.

With heroes, while having disadvantages, you just load them, load templates and go.
You need a mesmer? Sure, no problem, there's always two available.
The advantage isn't so much in the actual play, it's in team formation.
They are never late, don't afk, don't do stupid things that you can't know upfront.

Believe me, unless you are playing in an organised high end guild the seven hero option is imbalanced.
Or you must be someone who does not understand how to abuse AI but I doubt that.
And if someone isn't so smart, there's always pvxwiki...